LOL I just tested BOTD runeword on my barb..

[Acid_Rain]

lvl 99 barb on single player and lol he couldnt even kill act 5 shenk and
lizard guy by the wp with WW lol took him like 10 mins to clean them up...

my damage was 1600-5000 berzerk with BOTD and WW damage was 1000-2000
pityfull damage..

so I was saving my 2xwindforce bow to get zod on ladder for making of BOTD
on ladder but not now I stick with usualy my necro ...

also BOTD weapon was etherial berzerker axe...

[Particle Man]

Post by Acid_Rain
lvl 99 barb on single player and lol he couldnt even kill act 5 shenk and
lizard guy by the wp with WW lol took him like 10 mins to clean them up...
my damage was 1600-5000 berzerk with BOTD and WW damage was 1000-2000
pityfull damage..

So are you saying barb sucks now? I always found him boring anyway.
Although I was hoping to use that lightsabre I found..

[Acid_Rain]

I dun think just barb I strongly believe melee pally suck too...I got 1 too
with all top gear...

Also I got druid he dont do any good either...melee

Post by Particle Man

Post by Acid_Rain
lvl 99 barb on single player and lol he couldnt even kill act 5 shenk and
lizard guy by the wp with WW lol took him like 10 mins to clean them up...
my damage was 1600-5000 berzerk with BOTD and WW damage was 1000-2000
pityfull damage..

So are you saying barb sucks now? I always found him boring anyway.
Although I was hoping to use that lightsabre I found..

[HCwest Pete Fella]

Post by Acid_Rain
I dun think just barb I strongly believe melee pally suck too...I got
1 too with all top gear...
Also I got druid he dont do any good either...melee

That's the key word.

Melee.

Mages are now dominant and the tanks are there only to offer oaksage / bo.
No longer to actually kill everything.

The rebalance always seems to go from one extreme to the other with Bliz :(

[RU42]

Pete's got a great point. The 'team' balance that Blizzard wanted
come closer but still missed the mark. A meele barb with have an
extremely tough time soloing hell while a sorc will have difficulties
but a much easier time.

As PMan pointed out, a barb must have extremely high elemental
weapon(s) on switch or it is all pointless.

Imagaine having Flambe and Lightsabre on switch and hitting a PI/FI/LI
in hell. :)

RU

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:18:59 GMT, "HCwest Pete Fella"

Post by HCwest Pete Fella

Post by Acid_Rain
I dun think just barb I strongly believe melee pally suck too...I got
1 too with all top gear...
Also I got druid he dont do any good either...melee

That's the key word.
Melee.
Mages are now dominant and the tanks are there only to offer oaksage / bo.
No longer to actually kill everything.
The rebalance always seems to go from one extreme to the other with Bliz :(

[Bingain]

Post by RU42
As PMan pointed out, a barb must have extremely high elemental
weapon(s) on switch or it is all pointless.
Imagaine having Flambe and Lightsabre on switch and hitting a PI/FI/LI
in hell. :)

On paper yes. In reality, no barb (esp in HC) will give up their echo
jav/knive/sword which they have on switch. BO may last for 5 mins, but an
occassional shout never hurt.

The result is now barbs need to deal out *enough* physical and/or
elemental/magical damage, fast enough, to stay alive (for the duration of
the full belt). The only other option is stay at the back after offerring
BO service, and let the skellies/grizzlies/valk/SM to tank and kill.

Bing

[chainbreaker]

Post by Bingain
The result is now barbs need to deal out *enough* physical and/or
elemental/magical damage, fast enough, to stay alive (for the
duration of the full belt). The only other option is stay at the
back after offerring BO service, and let the
skellies/grizzlies/valk/SM to tank and kill.
Bing

I started an elemental druid just for the hell of it. He's halfway through
NM now, and it's amazing to me how ridiculously easy playing with him is
after taking my barb for the long ride. I'm anxious to get him to hell so I
can see if the relatively easy time he has continues.

[Hacksaw]

Post by RU42
As PMan pointed out, a barb must have extremely high elemental
weapon(s) on switch or it is all pointless.

I used a pair of echoing weapons on the weapon switch from the point I could
equip them on. My main weapons are a pair of Doombringers.


--- Hacksaw

[Hacksaw]

Post by HCwest Pete Fella
Mages are now dominant and the tanks are there only to offer oaksage / bo.
No longer to actually kill everything.

I can't say I agree with this. I just finished Hell with my Frenzy barb
without too much trouble. It is more difficult than it was in 1.09, but I
consider that a good thing. 1.09 was way too easy.

And yes, I did just about the whole game with him solo. Occasionally a
friend of mine would join in with his barb but that's about it. I did all
the big fights solo.

The real trick seems to be to load up on vitality to keep yourself alive. My
friend put more resources into damage output where I went with life charms
and such. His barb has died several times while mine has yet to get killed.
Then again, I used to play HC so I've got a lot of survival habits ingrained
into me. My barb has just over 3,000 life with Battle Orders active. In HC I
usually shoot for about 4,000 with my barbs but I think I'm going to play a
little more recklessly in SC and leave the life around 3,000 and start
boosting my damage output a bit.


--- Hacksaw

[chainbreaker]

In HC I usually shoot for about 4,000
with my barbs but I think I'm going to play a little more recklessly
in SC and leave the life around 3,000 and start boosting my damage
output a bit.

Damage reduction. If my HC barb hadn't been lucky enough to find Gerkes and
Verdungo, I don't think he'd ever have made it. His life after BO wasn't
quite up to your standard, being only around 2500, but I don't think an
extra 500 life would have mattered if not for that damage reduction gear.

It was plenty hard enough as it was.

[Dianne]

Post by chainbreaker

In HC I usually shoot for about 4,000
with my barbs but I think I'm going to play a little more recklessly
in SC and leave the life around 3,000 and start boosting my damage
output a bit.

Damage reduction. If my HC barb hadn't been lucky enough to find Gerkes and
Verdungo, I don't think he'd ever have made it. His life after BO wasn't
quite up to your standard, being only around 2500, but I don't think an
extra 500 life would have mattered if not for that damage reduction gear.
It was plenty hard enough as it was.
--
chainbreaker

I think you guys need to stop relying so much on damage reduction and the
size of your bits <G> and start playing like us girls do.. :)
If you read my reply to the " LOL i just tested BOTD " thread above, then
you would know that Barbs are still quite durable, even without damage
reduction/absorb gear and low life..
Maybe us girls are just more cautious and don't barge in like you boys do,
<G> but i reckon it makes for more interesting play if there is a bit of
planning and skill needed in our exploits.
I also have a lvl 80 Bow Zon on the ladder, who uses pretty basic gear and
she solo's Hell ok too, though no-where near as efficient as the 1.09 Zons
were.
I seem to be in a minority here with my thinking about Barbs being capable
in 1.10, so i guess it's just a guy/gal thing on how each sex approaches
the game. :)
Incidentally, my Barb made it to lvl 80 last night doing a solo Baal run
and was rewarded for his efforts with a Gold Swirling Crystal that Baal
decided to throw at me in anger as he was dying, which is typical, as i
don't play Sorcs.

Cheers,
Di.

[Brian Brunner]

Post by Dianne
Incidentally, my Barb made it to lvl 80 last night doing a solo Baal run
and was rewarded for his efforts with a Gold Swirling Crystal that Baal
decided to throw at me in anger as he was dying, which is typical, as i
don't play Sorcs.

I DO!

What do you want in trade?

[chainbreaker]

Post by Dianne
If you read my reply to the " LOL i just tested BOTD " thread above,
then you would know that Barbs are still quite durable, even without
damage reduction/absorb gear and low life..
Maybe us girls are just more cautious and don't barge in like you
boys do, <G> but i reckon it makes for more interesting play if
there is a bit of planning and skill needed in our exploits.

Heh, you want planning and tactics, you should have seen my barb's solo Hell
Baal run for Guardian. :-)

As a matter of fact, that's pretty much the *only* way a barb can be played
now, IMO. The days of rushing into random situations with ww/frenzy are
pretty much history.

Post by Dianne
I seem to be in a minority here with my thinking about Barbs being
capable in 1.10, so i guess it's just a guy/gal thing on how each sex
approaches the game. :)

Oh, I'm convinced that a decently built barb can stand up to anything in the
game. Now as to *how long* and under what conditions . . . :-)

[Particle Man]

Post by Acid_Rain
I dun think just barb I strongly believe melee pally suck too...I got 1 too
with all top gear...
Also I got druid he dont do any good either...melee

Tried weapons with high elemental/magic damage? Baranars, Lightsabre,
Azurewrath (ladder)...? That's the only way I'd go with melee,
personally.

[Acid_Rain]

yes but even with them archers rip u apart even with 50% damage reduction
gear....

I tried with lvl 99 pally and barb so figure LOL

I meant to be able to kill you need to tank for example moonlords LMFAO
ahhahaha


Thye rip u apart like nothing especially boss packs doesnt matter if u use
BOTD or whatever LOL or even high damage reduction gear...

BTW I also had 5000 life with BO

Post by Particle Man

Post by Acid_Rain
I dun think just barb I strongly believe melee pally suck too...I got 1 too
with all top gear...
Also I got druid he dont do any good either...melee

Tried weapons with high elemental/magic damage? Baranars, Lightsabre,
Azurewrath (ladder)...? That's the only way I'd go with melee,
personally.

[Bingain]

Post by Acid_Rain
yes but even with them archers rip u apart even with 50% damage reduction
gear....

If the guys in front of the archers are leechable, you're in some luck.
Hopefully you can leech back enough life, or kill them fast enough, before
you use up all your pots. Once the archers are alone, they are no threat to
a fast running/walking barb as they don't take more than a couple hits
before falling.

In theory, you can LA to them, leaving the melee monsters behind. In
practice, it's more like intentional RIP.

I really really strongly recommend WarCry for 1.10 barbs. You're not gonna
make it without WC, well, most of you.

Bing

[Hacksaw]

Post by Acid_Rain
I meant to be able to kill you need to tank for example moonlords LMFAO
ahhahaha
Thye rip u apart like nothing especially boss packs doesnt matter if u use
BOTD or whatever LOL or even high damage reduction gear...

Yeah, the moonlords and other Frenzy based monsters are a lot nastier now
that they live long enough to get their Frenzy skill charged up.

With my barb I'm using a Holy Freeze merc to help slow down the opposition
and I've also got a Nosferatu Coil belt gives my attacks the slows target
property. The combination of those helps quite a bit.

Post by Acid_Rain
BTW I also had 5000 life with BO

Now that's impressive! I'm sitting at about 3,000 at level 84.


--- Hacksaw

[chainbreaker]

Post by Particle Man
Tried weapons with high elemental/magic damage? Baranars, Lightsabre,
Azurewrath (ladder)...? That's the only way I'd go with melee,
personally.

That new Gimmershred flying axe saved my barb's bacon several times--I
dumped a Bstar for it.

[Charles C. Shyu]

I'd say he kind of sucks now. At his peak he could WW through monsters in
an 8 player game in Act4 Hell without breaking a sweat -- now players have
to actually pay attention while playing.

[Brian Barbour]

Post by Acid_Rain
lvl 99 barb on single player and lol he couldnt even kill act 5 shenk and
lizard guy by the wp with WW lol took him like 10 mins to clean them up...
my damage was 1600-5000 berzerk with BOTD and WW damage was 1000-2000
pityfull damage..
so I was saving my 2xwindforce bow to get zod on ladder for making of BOTD
on ladder but not now I stick with usualy my necro ...
also BOTD weapon was etherial berzerker axe...

I don't know. I have a BoTD CB on my level 87 barb and he can solo hell and
kill baal on his own. My main attack is concentrate and with my battle
orders and shout i get about 4500 max damage. I'm also using the Chains of
Honor armor though. So my HP is high, my resistances are maxed out in hell,
and i have a ton of life leech. Also I have about 10 points in berzerk for
those PI's. This was my first barb and I was very impressed with what he
can do.

Brian

[Dianne]

Post by Brian Barbour
I don't know. I have a BoTD CB on my level 87 barb and he can solo hell and
kill baal on his own. My main attack is concentrate and with my battle
orders and shout i get about 4500 max damage. I'm also using the Chains of
Honor armor though. So my HP is high, my resistances are maxed out in hell,
and i have a ton of life leech. Also I have about 10 points in berzerk for
those PI's. This was my first barb and I was very impressed with what he
can do.
Brian

I agree with you Brian..
There seems to be a bit of a fallacy about melee characters not being able
to survive in Hell, unless they have the best of gear and are/or surrounded
by Sorcs, Druids & Necros etc, that is totally false!!
My ladder Barb is lvl 79, and just completed Hell last night, alone.
He does not have the best of gear, but he has survived this long by being
careful and playing with patience and skill, rather than a gunhoe approach.
He is a Shield/Concentrate Barb, has maxed Shout and BO and a spread of
points throughout the other skills. Concentrate isn't even maxed yet, I
think it's about lvl 12 now and building slowly. He has about 6 in Beserk
for the PI's, and his natural resistance points are at 60%.
I don't use BC, as I find the range to short to be worthwhile, but instead
rely on the freeze effects of my "noobish, according to most" armour and
"very noobish" lvl15 Ammy to slow them down.
I do take damage, but I enjoy the challenge and have so far (touch wood)
survived and solo'd through all Acts and Quests, except for the Hell
Ancients, where I did team up with a Bowzon (we were both lvl 78) and her
Valk kept the bad boys occupied long enough to allow us to pick them off
one at a time.
My resistances in Hell are: 85 F, 75 L, 75 C & 74 P.
I have NO damage reducing or elemental reducing/absorbing gear at all...
My Barb's gear:
Arreats 5%
Iceblink upgraded to Russet.
Sigons Gloves & Belt
Goblin Toe upgraded to Battle Boots.
Rare rings, supplying a bit of resistance and life leech.
Eye of Etlich ammy.
Rhyme Round Shield, 51 def.
Hexfire upgraded and socketed with a Perf Skull (I needed mana leech for
Concentrate <G>)
CCSQ 207% Socketed with 2 perf Skulls (haven't found any decent jewels)
From memory, he has about 205 in Strength, 160 in Vitality, 160 in
Dexterity and base Energy.
BO health is only about the 1890 mark, Defence with Merc's Defiance is
around the 8000 mark.

So don't discount the Melee builds in 1.10, as it mainly boils down to the
way you play and how you approach any given situation, not the equipment or
character.
I usually play alone, as I detest the greedy and childish attitudes of most
people I have played with in public games. There are exceptions, but they
are rare.
I can survive in Hell multi-player games, though my killing speed is
painfully slow in a group, still the aim for me is surviving and having
fun, not trying to be a Uber hero.
He can easily do Shenk and Eldritch in Hell, without raising a sweat, but
tends to spend most of his time in the caves in Act5 (Rhyme comes in handy
there for the no-freeze). All bosses with exception to the Hell Ancients
were Solo'd and all quests and WP's completed.

Regards,
Di.

[Brian Brunner]

Post by Brian Barbour
I don't know. I have a BoTD CB on my level 87 barb and he can solo hell
and kill baal on his own. My main attack is concentrate and with my battle
orders and shout i get about 4500 max damage. I'm also using the Chains
of Honor armor though. So my HP is high, my resistances are maxed out in
hell, and i have a ton of life leech. Also I have about 10 points in berzerk
for those PI's. This was my first barb and I was very impressed with what he
can do.
Brian

I agree with you Brian...
There seems to be a bit of a fallacy about melee characters not being able
to survive in Hell, unless they have the best of gear and are/or surrounded
by Sorcs, Druids & Necros etc, that is totally false!!

Well... by the example Brian (the other one) gave...
He's got runes
Vex + Hel + El + Eld + Zod + Eth
and
Dol + Um + Ber + Ist
5 of which *I* have never seen drop (I'm only 67 now)

My ladder Barb is lvl 79, and just completed Hell last night, alone.
He does not have the best of gear, but he has survived this long by being
careful and playing with patience and skill, rather than a gunhoe approach.

Ah! The BarBoldian becomes the BarbCautian. It's the old play style
that is nerfed to death.

[Keith]

Post by Acid_Rain
lvl 99 barb on single player and lol he couldnt even kill act 5 shenk and
lizard guy by the wp with WW lol took him like 10 mins to clean them up...
my damage was 1600-5000 berzerk with BOTD and WW damage was 1000-2000
pityfull damage..
so I was saving my 2xwindforce bow to get zod on ladder for making of BOTD
on ladder but not now I stick with usualy my necro ...
also BOTD weapon was etherial berzerker axe...

You must have had it either on 8 player or been unlucky and had a
lot of stone skin because ive killed Shenk a number of times with
War cry and that only does 1 k damage.I find Eldritch goes down pretty
quick but then warcry can stun lock the whole group so theres no
attack interupts.I find him great for MFing and ive even managed
Pindle with him.