multi shot or strafe?

[The Shadow]

i see many people using strafe. But the only advantage I see strafe
having is the dmg boost with each skill pt invvested.
Multi has the range, and the mobility of not being in strafe lock.
Can someone please explain why someone would choose strafe? Is there
something I am totally missing?

[Walt]

Post by The Shadow
i see many people using strafe. But the only advantage I see strafe
having is the dmg boost with each skill pt invvested.
Multi has the range, and the mobility of not being in strafe lock.
Can someone please explain why someone would choose strafe? Is there
something I am totally missing?

you can use strafe as a boss killer because it shoots more than one arrow
into one target (if no other target is near).

If you use multishot as main attack you need a second attack (guided arrow,
for example) for bosses which means 20 extra skill points.

Thats the way I see it.

walt

[Starshine Moonbeam]

Post by The Shadow
i see many people using strafe. But the only advantage I see strafe
having is the dmg boost with each skill pt invvested.
Multi has the range, and the mobility of not being in strafe lock.
Can someone please explain why someone would choose strafe? Is there
something I am totally missing?

strafe fires with a machine gun effect, while multi-shot fires all at
once in an arc. In addition, strafe is fire and forget while you need to
be in front of all the targets for multi-shot to work right and while
multi-shot will hit only 1 target once, strafe can hit any target with
any number of arrows.

I usually just put points in for the number of shots I need, since the
damage bonus for strafe is buggy and doesn't work. In addition, basing
your points on the number of shots helps with the firing times.

[David Carson]

Post by Starshine Moonbeam
I usually just put points in for the number of shots I need, since the
damage bonus for strafe is buggy and doesn't work. In addition, basing
your points on the number of shots helps with the firing times.

Please explain!

Cheers,
David...

[Starshine Moonbeam]

Post by David Carson

Post by Starshine Moonbeam
I usually just put points in for the number of shots I need, since the
damage bonus for strafe is buggy and doesn't work. In addition, basing
your points on the number of shots helps with the firing times.

Please explain!
Cheers,
David...

Damage bonus doesn't show up. No matter how many points you put in, your
damage is still going to be 75% of the total you'd normally do. I don't
know why, it just is.

Now, knowing that, planning your strafe. You need to plan a little
because strafe and valkyrie are mana hogs and you want to get as many
shots off in as little time as possible. Every point you put in adds to
the firing sequence. So only put in what you'd need to take care of good
size mobs with a couple of volleys. Season to taste.

[Bingain]

Post by Starshine Moonbeam
Damage bonus doesn't show up. No matter how many points you put in, your
damage is still going to be 75% of the total you'd normally do. I don't
know why, it just is.

It does. At slvl 20, Strafe gets 96% of normal attack damage vs 75% of
normal attack damage at slvl 1. It will not go beyond normal attack damage
like in the good ole days.

Post by Starshine Moonbeam
Now, knowing that, planning your strafe. You need to plan a little
because strafe and valkyrie are mana hogs and you want to get as many
shots off in as little time as possible. Every point you put in adds to
the firing sequence. So only put in what you'd need to take care of good
size mobs with a couple of volleys. Season to taste.

Strafe is now no longer a mana hog as it costs 11 mana regardless of slvl.
Multi-shot, on the other hand, cost more mana as slvl goes up, from 4 mana
at slvl 1 to 23 mana at slvl 20.

Strafe and Multi-shot have pretty different applications.

Multi-shot fires at normal attack speed, so for example, if you are using a
Hunter's bow without any other IAS on gears, you will be shooting at 12 fps,
or roughly 2 volleys per second.

Strafe fires the first arrow at normal attack speed, each subsequent arrow
in that volley takes additional time to fire. Take that same Hunter's bow
as example, if you fire 10 arrows, it will take 12+(9x3)=39 seconds to
complete the sequence. This is much slower than MS. However, it also
depends on how many arrows are shot, where the monsters are coming from.
Generally, MS is best suit for packs in one direction, especially in a
corridor.

Only one MS arrow will hit any target. Multiple Strafe arrows can hit a
same target. If your AR is high enough, Strafe packs more damage-over-time
than Guided Arrows against a single boss (because subsequent arrows fires at
a much faster speed and GA no longer re-pierce.) You will never use MS
against a boss.

Like what Arreat Summit says, Strafe is a better scout than Decoy. You move
a few steps, fire one arrow with Strafe, and if you see the Strafe animation
(doesn't matter if the arrows actually hit), you know monsters are ahead,
you can cast a decoy at that direction and move slightly closer to launch
your machine gun attack. This strategy won't work for MS as it costs too
much mana at high slvl and also unless you have a 100% chance to hit your
arrows may not actually hit (thus refilling your mana pool) and give your
false impression about what's ahead of you.

There are much more differences in applications. No one of them is a winner
over the other in general. Playing style as well as gears plays an
important part in determining which to use. For instance, I'd consider it
rather silly to strafe with a Hellrack.


Bing

[Starshine Moonbeam]

In article <***@uni-berlin.de>, Bingain (***@yahoo.com)
dropped a +5 bundle of words...

Post by Bingain

Post by Starshine Moonbeam
Damage bonus doesn't show up. No matter how many points you put in, your
damage is still going to be 75% of the total you'd normally do. I don't
know why, it just is.

It does. At slvl 20, Strafe gets 96% of normal attack damage vs 75% of
normal attack damage at slvl 1. It will not go beyond normal attack damage
like in the good ole days.

The extra damage doesn't show up on the player screen though (where
your level, str, dex... are). Not sure if MS does or not either, truth
be told. Maybe it's a display thing (I hope it is, for obvious reasons).

Post by Bingain

Post by Starshine Moonbeam
Now, knowing that, planning your strafe. You need to plan a little
because strafe and valkyrie are mana hogs and you want to get as many
shots off in as little time as possible. Every point you put in adds to
the firing sequence. So only put in what you'd need to take care of good
size mobs with a couple of volleys. Season to taste.

Strafe is now no longer a mana hog as it costs 11 mana regardless of slvl.
Multi-shot, on the other hand, cost more mana as slvl goes up, from 4 mana
at slvl 1 to 23 mana at slvl 20.
Strafe and Multi-shot have pretty different applications.
Multi-shot fires at normal attack speed, so for example, if you are using a
Hunter's bow without any other IAS on gears, you will be shooting at 12 fps,
or roughly 2 volleys per second.
Strafe fires the first arrow at normal attack speed, each subsequent arrow
in that volley takes additional time to fire. Take that same Hunter's bow
as example, if you fire 10 arrows, it will take 12+(9x3)=39 seconds to
complete the sequence. This is much slower than MS. However, it also
depends on how many arrows are shot, where the monsters are coming from.
Generally, MS is best suit for packs in one direction, especially in a
corridor.
Only one MS arrow will hit any target. Multiple Strafe arrows can hit a
same target. If your AR is high enough, Strafe packs more damage-over-time
than Guided Arrows against a single boss (because subsequent arrows fires at
a much faster speed and GA no longer re-pierce.) You will never use MS
against a boss.
Like what Arreat Summit says, Strafe is a better scout than Decoy. You move
a few steps, fire one arrow with Strafe, and if you see the Strafe animation
(doesn't matter if the arrows actually hit), you know monsters are ahead,
you can cast a decoy at that direction and move slightly closer to launch
your machine gun attack. This strategy won't work for MS as it costs too
much mana at high slvl and also unless you have a 100% chance to hit your
arrows may not actually hit (thus refilling your mana pool) and give your
false impression about what's ahead of you.
There are much more differences in applications. No one of them is a winner
over the other in general. Playing style as well as gears plays an
important part in determining which to use. For instance, I'd consider it
rather silly to strafe with a Hellrack.
Bing

[Sascha Hoemig]

Post by Bingain

Post by Starshine Moonbeam
Damage bonus doesn't show up. No matter how many points you put in, your
damage is still going to be 75% of the total you'd normally do. I don't
know why, it just is.

It does. At slvl 20, Strafe gets 96% of normal attack damage vs 75% of
normal attack damage at slvl 1. It will not go beyond normal attack damage
like in the good ole days.

How do you come to those numbers? At slvl20 the skill description is:

3/4 Weapon Damage
Current Skill Level: 20
Attacks up to 10 targets
Damage: +100 percent
Mana Cost: 11

Lets say you do 100 damage with normal attack, doesn't that mean you do:
(0.75*100)*(1+1) = 150 damage?
You say it does 96% damage, then the description should say:
"Damage: +28 percent" because (0,75*100)*(1+0.28) = 96

I think Strafe is bugged, but i don't know if it's a display bug or if
the ama is really doing less damage than the description says.

Post by Bingain
Bing

Sascha Hoemig

[Bingain]

Post by Sascha Hoemig
3/4 Weapon Damage
Current Skill Level: 20
Attacks up to 10 targets
Damage: +100 percent
Mana Cost: 11
(0.75*100)*(1+1) = 150 damage?
"Damage: +28 percent" because (0,75*100)*(1+0.28) = 96

I honestly don't know how the formula works. For that we need David Carson
or Steffan. I loaded up a template SP char, check figures on char screen
for slvl 1 strafe and then slvl 20 strafe. It looked right though as: (a)
we know at slvl 1 the damage is 75%, and (b) it will never go beyond 100% of
normal attack damage.

Bing

[David Carson]

Post by Bingain
I honestly don't know how the formula works. For that we need David Carson
or Steffan. I loaded up a template SP char, check figures on char screen
for slvl 1 strafe and then slvl 20 strafe. It looked right though as: (a)
we know at slvl 1 the damage is 75%, and (b) it will never go beyond 100% of
normal attack damage.

Haha, don't look at me, I was the one asking what the deal was with
strafe. ;-)

My tip: search the Amazon Basin forums. They tend to have the best
technical answers for lay people, and Zons are their specialty. :-)

Cheers!
David...

[Ian Oversby]

Post by Bingain
There are much more differences in applications. No one of them is a winner
over the other in general. Playing style as well as gears plays an
important part in determining which to use. For instance, I'd consider it
rather silly to strafe with a Hellrack.

Infact, as a boss killer, strafe with Hellrack is pretty much perfect
as you get a 5 frame strafe. Nextdelay is 4 frames with strafe so
every 5 frames is the most often you can get an arrow to hit a single
critter, and there you go - ~6 arrows per second into the same critter.

Additionally, only the centre two arrows from MS get any special
effects such as crushing blow. This is probably the main reason that
90+% of the zons on battle.net are strafezons.

Ian

[Bingain]

Post by Ian Oversby
Infact, as a boss killer, strafe with Hellrack is pretty much perfect
as you get a 5 frame strafe. Nextdelay is 4 frames with strafe so
every 5 frames is the most often you can get an arrow to hit a single
critter, and there you go - ~6 arrows per second into the same critter.
Additionally, only the centre two arrows from MS get any special
effects such as crushing blow. This is probably the main reason that
90+% of the zons on battle.net are strafezons.

Assuming you have 60% IAS on the Hellrack and another 20% from gears, your
firing speed using a Hellrack is 14/4. So with slvl 6+ Strafe you will be
shooting at 14+(9*4)= 50 frames per Strafe sequence. That is 2 seconds
locking up your feet. Isn't it a little ...uh... dangerous?

Bing

----------------------
Speed Table for Gigantic xbows
22/6 0 - 1
22/5.5 2 - 2
21/5.5 3 - 6
20/5.5 7 - 10
19/5 11 - 18
18/5 19 - 26
17/4œ 27 - 36
16/4œ 37 - 49
15/4 50 - 69
14/4 70 - 94
13/3œ 95 - 137
12/3œ 138 - 214
11/3 215 - 285

[Ian Oversby]

Post by Bingain
Assuming you have 60% IAS on the Hellrack and another 20% from gears, your
firing speed using a Hellrack is 14/4. So with slvl 6+ Strafe you will be
shooting at 14+(9*4)= 50 frames per Strafe sequence. That is 2 seconds
locking up your feet. Isn't it a little ...uh... dangerous?

Hellrack is only on switch for boss killing. Usually you
want to avoid putting too much IAS on because you don't
want to hit a x/4 break point and make 1 in every 2 arrows
useless against your target.

Ian

[Bingain]

Post by Ian Oversby

Post by Bingain
Assuming you have 60% IAS on the Hellrack and another 20% from gears,
your firing speed using a Hellrack is 14/4. So with slvl 6+ Strafe you
will be shooting at 14+(9*4)= 50 frames per Strafe sequence. That is 2
seconds locking up your feet. Isn't it a little ...uh... dangerous?

Hellrack is only on switch for boss killing. Usually you
want to avoid putting too much IAS on because you don't
want to hit a x/4 break point and make 1 in every 2 arrows
useless against your target.

Where did you get the information about "every 5 frames is the most often
you can get an arrow to hit a single critter"? I have no clue about this.

Anyway if it's true, then ALL bow (not xbow) strafers will miss a lot of
shots against single targets as even the slowest bow shoots at 15/4.

Bing

[Sascha Hoemig]

Post by Bingain

Post by Ian Oversby

Post by Bingain
Assuming you have 60% IAS on the Hellrack and another 20% from gears,
your firing speed using a Hellrack is 14/4. So with slvl 6+ Strafe you
will be shooting at 14+(9*4)= 50 frames per Strafe sequence. That is 2
seconds locking up your feet. Isn't it a little ...uh... dangerous?

Hellrack is only on switch for boss killing. Usually you
want to avoid putting too much IAS on because you don't
want to hit a x/4 break point and make 1 in every 2 arrows
useless against your target.

Where did you get the information about "every 5 frames is the most often
you can get an arrow to hit a single critter"? I have no clue about this.
Anyway if it's true, then ALL bow (not xbow) strafers will miss a lot of
shots against single targets as even the slowest bow shoots at 15/4.
Bing

It is in the mpq, marked as nextHitDelay. For Strafe this is 4fps, it
means, whenever you hit a target with strafe, you can't hit that target
with strafe for the next 4 frames. The same even goes for other players,
you hit with strafe, they can't hit for 4 frames, if they are also using
strafe.

I can only provide a german source for that:
http://tinyurl.com/4su9v

Go to the section "Was ist das Nexthitdelay?" and try a google translate
on the next 2 paragraphs.

Sascha Hoemig

[Bingain]

Post by Sascha Hoemig
It is in the mpq, marked as nextHitDelay. For Strafe this is 4fps, it
means, whenever you hit a target with strafe, you can't hit that target
with strafe for the next 4 frames. The same even goes for other players,
you hit with strafe, they can't hit for 4 frames, if they are also using
strafe.
http://tinyurl.com/4su9v
Go to the section "Was ist das Nexthitdelay?" and try a google translate
on the next 2 paragraphs.

Thx for the info. It's really stupid, because only a strafezon can hit
faster than 4 fps, so this is another bowazon-specific punishment.


Bing

[john graesser]

Post by Ian Oversby
Additionally, only the centre two arrows from MS get any special
effects such as crushing blow. This is probably the main reason that
90+% of the zons on battle.net are strafezons.

Perhaps where you play they are 90% strafers, on East SC ladder it is more
like 5-10% stafers. I often get called noobie or asked why I am using strafe
until they see me clear rooms by running in and strafing for 1-2 seconds.

[SjoerdH]

Post by The Shadow
i see many people using strafe. But the only advantage I see strafe
having is the dmg boost with each skill pt invvested.
Multi has the range, and the mobility of not being in strafe lock.
Can someone please explain why someone would choose strafe? Is there
something I am totally missing?

There's a couple. It doesn't cost as much mana as a high level
multishot, it auto-aims, multiple arrows can hit a single monster and
against small groups you get more hits per second then with multishot.

Bowazons have become much less powerful and many people only use
bowazons to do pitruns now, for which strafe is much better. Multishot
arrows just get wasted on walls.

[john graesser]

Post by The Shadow
i see many people using strafe. But the only advantage I see strafe
having is the dmg boost with each skill pt invvested.
Multi has the range, and the mobility of not being in strafe lock.
Can someone please explain why someone would choose strafe? Is there
something I am totally missing?

I am one of those using strafe for the following reasons:

Strafe auto aims at any monsters around you.

Multi shot only hits one arrow per monster, even if you have a dozen arrows
going that way.

Strafe will hit a single monster multiple times if you are at 4 frames or
more per shot (you can only hit a monster once every 4 frames).

So as you see there are reasons for using strafe.

Admittedly I strafe with fast hard hitting weapons like buriza. While
rushing chars to hellforge my strafing zon clears areas in every direction
no worries about being blind sided.

Strafe works well stepping out of a stairwell. As I go down a stair I click
on strafe and come out shooting, even if monsters are there to swarm,
between my valk, my merc and all the strafe shots, everyone swarming the
stair is going to get attacked.

To me strafe is a cross between multishot and guided arrow, mutiple arrows
that get aimed automatically. They don't follow a moving target like guided
arrow and they have the firing delay that multi shot doesn't have (the
dreaded strafelock). All three have their uses, but for me strafe is my
attack mode of choice.