Discussion:
I think u had it right all along...
(too old to reply)
Darrel Hoffman
2004-02-20 06:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Just discovered something very interesting about Exploding Arrow. If you're
Enchanted when you fire it, the Enchant damage will work on the splash
damage as well as a direct hit. Why is this significant? There are several
bows which fire Exploding Arrows automatically. They use no mana to do so,
and thus can be used effectively by almost anyone. They are:

Raven's Claw - Long Bow - Lvl 15
Hellcast - Heavy Crossbow - Lvl 27
Kuko Shakaku - Cedar Bow - Lvl 33
Demon Machine - Chu-Ko-Nu - Lvl 49

Blood Raven's Charge - Matriarchal Bow - Lvl 71
(Doesn't count since it's Amazon only, and has a high lvl req, but might be
worth trying out this way. I don't have a 'Zon that high yet, so I can't
say...)

In addition, Kuko and Demon Machine both have Piercing Attack, which means
that in a dense pack of monsters, you can fire an arrow and do splash damage
(+ Enchant) several times to all the monsters. Throw on a Razortail to get
a little more, and all of a sudden, any character can effectively use a bow
all through Normal and most of NM. (In Hell, the Fire Immunes will be a bit
of a problem. I use a 4-PEmerald bow on swap to deal with them, but it
ain't easy.) I think that anybody who has 2 computers and 2 copies of the
game should strongly consider making an Enchantress. No other skill in the
game is as effective at bringing up young characters past those tender
levels before they get their good skills. Paladin/Druid HotW auras don't
work, because their damage increase is percentage based and not a straight
addition, making them less effective if your base damage is very low to
begin with. Plus, auras only work if you're within range of the
Paladin/Druid the whole time. (Very impractical if you're using 2 machines,
since you can't easily control both chars at once...) With Enchant, you
cast it on your other character once every 10-15 minutes. A decent Enchant
on a newbie character lets that character kill pretty much anything in the
first 3 acts in Normal in a single hit. (Maybe a few more for the act
bosses.) Now, if that newbie character is also equipped with an Exploding
Arrow bow (Raven's Claw is the earliest you can equip), and they put on a
Razortail once they hit Lvl 32, (Kuko is available at 33, which helps even
more), you can easily get any character to Lvl 50 or so in practically no
time. By that point, they'll be able to have at least one good skill maxed
out, which should allow them to not need the Enchant anymore. If you have a
3rd machine and copy of the game, I'd say you should also build a warcry
Barb, with maxed Shout, Battle Orders, and Battle Command (for duration
synergy). This may be the most effective way to rush new characters to
mid-levels to try out different builds.

Darrel Hoffman - Lvl 26+2 Game Guru
(Now considering an Explodabarian, Explodassin, Explodomancer,
Explodadin...)
RegNitto
2004-02-20 06:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darrel Hoffman
Just discovered something very interesting about Exploding Arrow. If you're
Enchanted when you fire it, the Enchant damage will work on the splash
damage as well as a direct hit. Why is this significant? There are several
bows which fire Exploding Arrows automatically. They use no mana to do so,
Raven's Claw - Long Bow - Lvl 15
Hellcast - Heavy Crossbow - Lvl 27
Kuko Shakaku - Cedar Bow - Lvl 33
Demon Machine - Chu-Ko-Nu - Lvl 49
Blood Raven's Charge - Matriarchal Bow - Lvl 71
(Doesn't count since it's Amazon only, and has a high lvl req, but might be
worth trying out this way. I don't have a 'Zon that high yet, so I can't
say...)
In addition, Kuko and Demon Machine both have Piercing Attack, which means
that in a dense pack of monsters, you can fire an arrow and do splash damage
(+ Enchant) several times to all the monsters. Throw on a Razortail to get
a little more, and all of a sudden, any character can effectively use a bow
all through Normal and most of NM. (In Hell, the Fire Immunes will be a bit
of a problem. I use a 4-PEmerald bow on swap to deal with them, but it
ain't easy.) I think that anybody who has 2 computers and 2 copies of the
game should strongly consider making an Enchantress. No other skill in the
game is as effective at bringing up young characters past those tender
levels before they get their good skills. Paladin/Druid HotW auras don't
work, because their damage increase is percentage based and not a straight
addition, making them less effective if your base damage is very low to
begin with. Plus, auras only work if you're within range of the
Paladin/Druid the whole time. (Very impractical if you're using 2 machines,
since you can't easily control both chars at once...) With Enchant, you
cast it on your other character once every 10-15 minutes. A decent Enchant
on a newbie character lets that character kill pretty much anything in the
first 3 acts in Normal in a single hit. (Maybe a few more for the act
bosses.) Now, if that newbie character is also equipped with an Exploding
Arrow bow (Raven's Claw is the earliest you can equip), and they put on a
Razortail once they hit Lvl 32, (Kuko is available at 33, which helps even
more), you can easily get any character to Lvl 50 or so in practically no
time. By that point, they'll be able to have at least one good skill maxed
out, which should allow them to not need the Enchant anymore. If you have a
3rd machine and copy of the game, I'd say you should also build a warcry
Barb, with maxed Shout, Battle Orders, and Battle Command (for duration
synergy). This may be the most effective way to rush new characters to
mid-levels to try out different builds.
Darrel Hoffman - Lvl 26+2 Game Guru
(Now considering an Explodabarian, Explodassin, Explodomancer,
Explodadin...)
I received a Demon Machine the other night... What would my necro need to
operate this correctly? (besides arrows)

Baah! I'll just go try it...
--
RegNitto1-10 ­ USWest Ladder
RegNitto ­ USWest SC
Darrel Hoffman
2004-02-22 03:16:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by RegNitto
I received a Demon Machine the other night... What would my necro need to
operate this correctly? (besides arrows)
Baah! I'll just go try it...
One of the above mentionned bows (Demon Machine will work), a Razortail
would be nice, and a friendly Enchantress are all you need.

Darrel Hoffman - Lvl 26+2 Game Guru
(Responding to day-old posts now...)
Babe Bridou
2004-02-20 08:14:30 UTC
Permalink
in 1.09 I've had a kuko shakarogue, kuko shakasorc and a kuko shakasin...

the kuko shakasin was very interesting, because the blade shield would
explode every now and then, triggering multiple crushing blows on every
monster. That was the point in 1.09 with exploding kuko: 5 monsters = 5 hits
per monsters.

In 1.10 it had been modified: the exploding radius no longer carry mods such
as crushing blows, chance to cast and elemental damage from charms: only the
target of the main arrow is affected by this.

But you are right to consider enchant with this. 1/3 of the enchant damage
applies to the radius, and 1/3 of the enchant damage multiplied by fire
mastery applies to the target. It's still veeery powerful.
Post by Darrel Hoffman
Just discovered something very interesting about Exploding Arrow. If you're
Enchanted when you fire it, the Enchant damage will work on the splash
damage as well as a direct hit. Why is this significant? There are several
bows which fire Exploding Arrows automatically. They use no mana to do so,
Raven's Claw - Long Bow - Lvl 15
Hellcast - Heavy Crossbow - Lvl 27
Kuko Shakaku - Cedar Bow - Lvl 33
Demon Machine - Chu-Ko-Nu - Lvl 49
Blood Raven's Charge - Matriarchal Bow - Lvl 71
(Doesn't count since it's Amazon only, and has a high lvl req, but might be
worth trying out this way. I don't have a 'Zon that high yet, so I can't
say...)
In addition, Kuko and Demon Machine both have Piercing Attack, which means
that in a dense pack of monsters, you can fire an arrow and do splash damage
(+ Enchant) several times to all the monsters. Throw on a Razortail to get
a little more, and all of a sudden, any character can effectively use a bow
all through Normal and most of NM. (In Hell, the Fire Immunes will be a bit
of a problem. I use a 4-PEmerald bow on swap to deal with them, but it
ain't easy.) I think that anybody who has 2 computers and 2 copies of the
game should strongly consider making an Enchantress. No other skill in the
game is as effective at bringing up young characters past those tender
levels before they get their good skills. Paladin/Druid HotW auras don't
work, because their damage increase is percentage based and not a straight
addition, making them less effective if your base damage is very low to
begin with. Plus, auras only work if you're within range of the
Paladin/Druid the whole time. (Very impractical if you're using 2 machines,
since you can't easily control both chars at once...) With Enchant, you
cast it on your other character once every 10-15 minutes. A decent Enchant
on a newbie character lets that character kill pretty much anything in the
first 3 acts in Normal in a single hit. (Maybe a few more for the act
bosses.) Now, if that newbie character is also equipped with an Exploding
Arrow bow (Raven's Claw is the earliest you can equip), and they put on a
Razortail once they hit Lvl 32, (Kuko is available at 33, which helps even
more), you can easily get any character to Lvl 50 or so in practically no
time. By that point, they'll be able to have at least one good skill maxed
out, which should allow them to not need the Enchant anymore. If you have a
3rd machine and copy of the game, I'd say you should also build a warcry
Barb, with maxed Shout, Battle Orders, and Battle Command (for duration
synergy). This may be the most effective way to rush new characters to
mid-levels to try out different builds.
Darrel Hoffman - Lvl 26+2 Game Guru
(Now considering an Explodabarian, Explodassin, Explodomancer,
Explodadin...)
Darrel Hoffman
2004-02-22 03:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Babe Bridou
in 1.09 I've had a kuko shakarogue, kuko shakasorc and a kuko shakasin...
the kuko shakasin was very interesting, because the blade shield would
explode every now and then, triggering multiple crushing blows on every
monster. That was the point in 1.09 with exploding kuko: 5 monsters = 5 hits
per monsters.
In 1.10 it had been modified: the exploding radius no longer carry mods such
as crushing blows, chance to cast and elemental damage from charms: only the
target of the main arrow is affected by this.
But you are right to consider enchant with this. 1/3 of the enchant damage
applies to the radius, and 1/3 of the enchant damage multiplied by fire
mastery applies to the target. It's still veeery powerful.
The 1/3rd damage thing is a myth, or it's outdated or something. See
Bingain's link below.

Darrel Hoffman - Lvl 26+2 Game Guru
(Even better, huh?)
Frohike
2004-02-20 10:42:09 UTC
Permalink
Very interesting. What's the enchantress build again?
Bingain
2004-02-20 17:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frohike
Very interesting. What's the enchantress build again?
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/index.php?showtopic=35763


Bing
Keith
2004-02-20 13:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darrel Hoffman
Just discovered something very interesting about Exploding Arrow. If you're
Enchanted when you fire it, the Enchant damage will work on the splash
damage as well as a direct hit. Why is this significant? There are several
bows which fire Exploding Arrows automatically. They use no mana to do so,
and thus can be used effectively by almost anyone.
The same applies to Holy shock and the other similar Pally auros
this was true in 1.09 that is why i had so many chars with Demon
machines.
Adam Brooks
2004-02-20 17:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith
Post by Darrel Hoffman
Just discovered something very interesting about Exploding Arrow. If you're
Enchanted when you fire it, the Enchant damage will work on the splash
damage as well as a direct hit. Why is this significant? There are several
bows which fire Exploding Arrows automatically. They use no mana to do so,
and thus can be used effectively by almost anyone.
The same applies to Holy shock and the other similar Pally auros
this was true in 1.09 that is why i had so many chars with Demon
machines.
I've never found one :(

That aside, and going back more to the OP. Do you have recommendations for
the early life of the enchantress in the first place? I've tried sorcies
before but find it very hard going through the early levels. In fact I've
probably not had a sorcy much above level 10. But then my highest level char
ATM is only 42 so I may be doing stuff wrong.

Ad.
Adam Brooks
2004-02-23 11:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darrel Hoffman
Post by Keith
Post by Darrel Hoffman
Just discovered something very interesting about Exploding Arrow. If
you're
Post by Keith
Post by Darrel Hoffman
Enchanted when you fire it, the Enchant damage will work on the splash
damage as well as a direct hit. Why is this significant? There are
several
Post by Keith
Post by Darrel Hoffman
bows which fire Exploding Arrows automatically. They use no mana to
do
Post by Darrel Hoffman
so,
Post by Keith
Post by Darrel Hoffman
and thus can be used effectively by almost anyone.
The same applies to Holy shock and the other similar Pally auros
this was true in 1.09 that is why i had so many chars with Demon
machines.
I've never found one :(
That aside, and going back more to the OP. Do you have recommendations for
the early life of the enchantress in the first place? I've tried sorcies
before but find it very hard going through the early levels. In fact I've
probably not had a sorcy much above level 10. But then my highest level char
ATM is only 42 so I may be doing stuff wrong.
Responding to myself but never mind. I think I answered my own question at
the weekend. Two words, eight player games. Went up 17 levels over the
weekend. BooM!

Ad.

u
2004-02-20 13:56:22 UTC
Permalink
ha! See? I AM right every once in a while...


Anex......Explodeazon, just not lately.
Post by Darrel Hoffman
Just discovered something very interesting about Exploding Arrow. If you're
Enchanted when you fire it, the Enchant damage will work on the splash
damage as well as a direct hit. Why is this significant? There are several
bows which fire Exploding Arrows automatically. They use no mana to do so,
Raven's Claw - Long Bow - Lvl 15
Hellcast - Heavy Crossbow - Lvl 27
Kuko Shakaku - Cedar Bow - Lvl 33
Demon Machine - Chu-Ko-Nu - Lvl 49
Blood Raven's Charge - Matriarchal Bow - Lvl 71
(Doesn't count since it's Amazon only, and has a high lvl req, but might be
worth trying out this way. I don't have a 'Zon that high yet, so I can't
say...)
In addition, Kuko and Demon Machine both have Piercing Attack, which means
that in a dense pack of monsters, you can fire an arrow and do splash damage
(+ Enchant) several times to all the monsters. Throw on a Razortail to get
a little more, and all of a sudden, any character can effectively use a bow
all through Normal and most of NM. (In Hell, the Fire Immunes will be a bit
of a problem. I use a 4-PEmerald bow on swap to deal with them, but it
ain't easy.) I think that anybody who has 2 computers and 2 copies of the
game should strongly consider making an Enchantress. No other skill in the
game is as effective at bringing up young characters past those tender
levels before they get their good skills. Paladin/Druid HotW auras don't
work, because their damage increase is percentage based and not a straight
addition, making them less effective if your base damage is very low to
begin with. Plus, auras only work if you're within range of the
Paladin/Druid the whole time. (Very impractical if you're using 2 machines,
since you can't easily control both chars at once...) With Enchant, you
cast it on your other character once every 10-15 minutes. A decent Enchant
on a newbie character lets that character kill pretty much anything in the
first 3 acts in Normal in a single hit. (Maybe a few more for the act
bosses.) Now, if that newbie character is also equipped with an Exploding
Arrow bow (Raven's Claw is the earliest you can equip), and they put on a
Razortail once they hit Lvl 32, (Kuko is available at 33, which helps even
more), you can easily get any character to Lvl 50 or so in practically no
time. By that point, they'll be able to have at least one good skill maxed
out, which should allow them to not need the Enchant anymore. If you have a
3rd machine and copy of the game, I'd say you should also build a warcry
Barb, with maxed Shout, Battle Orders, and Battle Command (for duration
synergy). This may be the most effective way to rush new characters to
mid-levels to try out different builds.
Darrel Hoffman - Lvl 26+2 Game Guru
(Now considering an Explodabarian, Explodassin, Explodomancer,
Explodadin...)
RegNitto
2004-02-20 20:20:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Darrel Hoffman
Just discovered something very interesting about Exploding Arrow. If you're
Enchanted when you fire it, the Enchant damage will work on the splash
damage as well as a direct hit. Why is this significant? There are several
bows which fire Exploding Arrows automatically. They use no mana to do so,
Darrel Hoffman - Lvl 26+2 Game Guru
(Now considering an Explodabarian, Explodassin, Explodomancer,
Explodadin...)
I went and equiped my lvl 75 skellimancer with a Demon Machine (funny
enough, the name sort-of fits on a necro...sort-of). Anyway, the DM had
never been fired...Found and Muled that bow... So, used one of my socket
quests and added a Nef rune.

I was quite impressed with this... Knockback, pierce, a bunch of poison
damage (that remained unutilized because I rarely "hit" anything). The
great thing is the knockback and the real damage that I can produce now. It
happens quite often that I'll be in the pit and find myself around the
corner of my minions AND surrounded by monsters... Try wacking yourself out
of that with a wand. The DM had good damage and cleared (usually) a couple
monsters at a time... Clearing the path for me quickly. I noticed that it
fires pretty rapidly for a crossbow.

BTW~ Would a Necromancer fire a crossbow faster than a normal Amazon?
--
RegNitto1-10 ­ USWest Ladder
RegNitto ­ USWest SC
Bingain
2004-02-20 21:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by RegNitto
BTW~ Would a Necromancer fire a crossbow faster than a normal Amazon?
From http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english, a
Cho-Ko-Nu [-60 base speed] has these normal attack speeds without any
further IAS:

Amazon: 12 fps (3.5 fps Strafe)
Assassin: 13 fps (10 fps Dragon Tail)
Barbarian: 12 fps
Druid: 12 fps (9 fps Were-form, 6 fps Fury, 7 fps Hunger)
Paladin: 12 fps
Necro: 12 fps
Sorc: 12 fps (15 fps when using it for CL)


For comparison purpose, a Blade Bow [-10 base speed] has these attack
speeds:

Amazon: 12 fps
Assassin: 14 fps
Barbarian: 13 fps
Druid: 14 fps
Paladin: 14 fps
Necro: 16 fps
Sorc: 15 fps
Rogue: 14 fps


Bing
u
2004-02-20 21:38:51 UTC
Permalink
oh, you would LIKE to think that, wouldn't you? :)

Anex.....Explodeazon, nope, all character classes fire the DM (Cho-Ko-Nu) at
the same rate.
Post by RegNitto
BTW~ Would a Necromancer fire a crossbow faster than a normal Amazon?
u
2004-02-20 21:45:22 UTC
Permalink
ok, completely ignore what I just posted and go with Bingain's answer.

Anex.....Explodeazon, I referred to general speed classes such as Very Fast,
Fast, Normal, Slow, etc. His answer is more precise and informative.
Post by u
oh, you would LIKE to think that, wouldn't you? :)
Anex.....Explodeazon, nope, all character classes fire the DM (Cho-Ko-Nu) at
the same rate.
Post by RegNitto
BTW~ Would a Necromancer fire a crossbow faster than a normal Amazon?
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...